rhu: (Default)
[personal profile] rhu
Y'know, as much as I agree that DOMA is unconstitutional, it worries me that the Executive Branch is making that decision. Obama doesn't have the right to a retroactive veto, and I don't think we want to relitigate Marbury v. Madison at this point.

Here's a thought experiment: In 2013, based on the DOMA precedent, newly-inaugurated President Huckabee announces that in his opinion, the Environmental Protection Act is an unconstitutional taking, violating the principle of just compensation for eminent domain and also violating the Interstate Commerce Clause, and that he has instructed the DoJ to not defend it. Two days later, the Koch brothers sue the Federal government....

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
It's not that unilateral.

Basically, the Department of Justice does have the responsibility to defend the constitutionality of any Federal law for which there is a constitutional justification.

However, at least one of the challenges to DOMA's constitutionality was so solidly constructed that the DoJ felt that there really was no reasonable chance that this would be found constitutional. As long as there was a reasonable argument to be made, they'd be required to make it. But in this specific case, there wasn't.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 12:25 am (UTC)
ext_87516: (Default)
From: [identity profile] 530nm330hz.livejournal.com
Yeeees... but that's not how it's going to go down in the public mind. And when the Republicans get their shot, do you expect them to be this intellectually honest? A precedent set for legitimate reasons can be abused for illegitimate ones.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 12:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violetcheetah.livejournal.com
Given my own views of current Republican Congressmen's intellectual honesty, I don't really see this making much difference in how they try to outlaw gay marriage. It might give them another avenue, perhaps slightly easier to justify, but frankly, they'll come up with something. If the Dems worried about how the Repubs could use every legitimate precedent for illegitimate reasons, they'd be even more paralyzed and wishy-washy than they are now.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 04:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shaggy-man.livejournal.com
If you propose the DoJ be required to defend the law, how do you propose to require them to actually try to win? Otherwise, it seems just as open to abuse by faithless actors. To the public, throwing the fight is going to look a lot like not having a case in the first place.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 11:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
I am at least reassured that THIS one was done for legitimate reasons. The reason Obama's DoJ was defending DOMA for so long was that they had to wait for a case to be brought that was solid enough to allow them to drop their defense.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 01:14 am (UTC)
sethg: a petunia flower (Default)
From: [personal profile] sethg
I have mixed feelings about the DOMA-defense decision, but I think your specific concerns are not well-founded.

First, this is not setting a new precedent: the executive branch has in the past chosen not to defend statutes that it believes to be unconstitutional. E.g., during the Reagan Administration, the IRS stopped defending Bob Jones v. United States, and another lawyer stepped in to argue the side that the IRS had previously taken.

Second, other parties, including Members of Congress who voted for DOMA, have standing to defend DOMA’s constitutionality, and if they’re more motivated than the Obama Administration, so much the better for the legal process.

(On these two points, see Volokh.)

Third, no matter what course President Obama takes, President Huckabee will do whatever he wants, and his apologists will find some way to argue that the Democrats did it first.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 01:45 am (UTC)
ext_87516: (Default)
From: [identity profile] 530nm330hz.livejournal.com
Your second point is the one that reassures me. It wasn't clear from the scattered press reports I was able to get while we were away that anyone else would have standing.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 02:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pocketnaomi.livejournal.com
The Obama administration did defend DOMA for an extended period of time. They just eventually stopped appealing when they lost. I wouldn't argue if Huckabee fought for the EPA for two years and then stopped appealing when he consistently lost. I just don't think it's likely.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 02:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qaqaq.livejournal.com
I really wish you would all stop saying "President Huckabee". I'd like to sleep tonight.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 02:26 am (UTC)
fauxklore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fauxklore
How about "President Palin"?

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 02:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nplloquacious.livejournal.com
President Trump from the looks of things.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-25 05:11 am (UTC)
jadelennox: Norton I, Emperor of the United States and Defender of Mexico (politics: norton)
From: [personal profile] jadelennox
President Bachmann?

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